Posts by Juan Viejo2

17

Twelve foot high Jehovah's Witnesses

by RayPublisher in

conan o'brian doing a funny skit about jws:.

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=el-wufuzagc.

Juan Viejo2

Is the doorbell 9 feet high? Or did they have to get down on their knees in their really nice slacks to ring it?

Enquiring people and all that...

JV

32

Part 1 of the 2013 Conti and Simons interview now on YouTube (questions posed by JWN members)

by cedars in

a while back we ran a "competition" whereby people could pose questions of candace conti and rick simons for them to answer in a video.. there were so many questions that we needed to do a series rather than just one video.

this first instalment is now on youtube.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bhvfefpig4a.

here are the questions that were answered.... (to rick, asked by "exwhyzee") is there a possibility that part of the ruling, if you overcome the appeal, will be that the society must make an announcement outlining the details of the case to its members, as well as an apology to candace?.

Juan Viejo2

Thanks for that extra effort, rip van winkle and Cedars!

Every little bit helps get the word out.

When can we expect it to be translated into Farsi? There must be thousands of deaf JWs in Iran that want to know. Is a little thing like that too much to ask?

JV

15

"Anniversary of Jesus' Death" Invitation wording

by seenitall in

noticed the wording change this year.

no more memorial or lord's evening meal mentioned.. only an invitation to "the anniversary of jesus' death".

so, my question - who has caught this phrase and what does it mean?.

Juan Viejo2

"If they really wanted more attendence here is what you do:..." seenitall

They could invite all apostates, disfellowshipped and disassociated former members - and suggest that they bring their video cameras and audio recorders. The Halls would be packed and replays of the Memorial would be all over the Internet and on Youtube.com.

What a wonderful opportunity to share this wonderful event to all - even those who would not step foot in a Kingdom Hall (or even be allowed in one!)

What an amazing witness to the world that would be!!!

And they could do it again next year. Then we could compare the two versions!

I guarantee that there wouldn't be an empty KH in the entire world. There would be more apostates there than regulars.

"Watch as self-important old men speak from a flowered stage in monotone voices."

"Hear other old men say multiple prayers that go on and on, repeating the same phrases again and again in the same monotone voices."

"Watch as glasses of FREE wine and plates of FREE crackers are passed to EVERYONE in the audience! Watch as absolutely NO ONE drinks the blessed (FREE) wine or eats the blessed (FREE) crackers! (Maybe a couple of people do, but they are certifiably insane and have been marked for discipline for several years over this issue.)"

"See the miracle of NEW ANOINTED being added to the 144,000 this year! Total Anointed should hit the Governing Body's goal of 288,000 by 2020!!!"

I'd go see that...

15

Vulcan--2013,May,Our Kingdom Ministry/

by Atlantis in

.

2013, may, our kingdom ministry.link by the blue box and blue arrow.http://www.sendspace.com/file/dzezcj.click on slow download.http://www.fileswap.com/dl/snvol4en1s/.click the green download button.http://www.fileflyer.com/view/hm53dcp..vulcan.

Juan Viejo2

In the USA we've always had to register for the Selective Service within a few weeks of our 18th birthdays. I don't know of anyone who didn't do that.

In the USA, the military is now "all-volunteer," and the "draft" has not been used for many years. But Selective Service is still in place and can be reactivated very quickly should there be a national emergency (i.e., Red Chinese soldiers land on the beaches of Malibu, California, etc.) I don't know if local draft boards are still in place, as they would have nothing to do, but I know that they can grab enough politicians to volunteer for a sizable sum of money to staff those boards.

I think the last time any JWs actually went to prison was in the early 1970s.

The bigger issue is "national service." The USA has remnants of the Peace Corp and a couple of other semi-voluntary service organizations, but none are used as alternatives to actual military draft. The Watchtower's position has always been, and still seems to be along those lines, that anything connected with military functions is verboten. And yet I am amazed at how many JWs work for police departments in support roles and in courthouse clerical positions - clearly government jobs requiring questionable compromises.

JV

28

At what age do most or many JWs kids count as "publisher?"

by Gayle in

what is considered as a requirement for them now-a-days to turn in their time as a "publisher?

" among born-in, how young were you?

my parents became jws when i was 9 yrs old.

Juan Viejo2

I was 8 and Richard Kelly was 6. And we were knocking on doors by ourselves in West Los Angeles and Venice, CA in those days (1950-1958).

I would knock on doors with my best friend Lonnie, who was my same age, in some of the worst sections of Riverside, California (what was then, and still is a ghetto area) when we were just 10 and 11. It was not unusual for me to work both sides of a street by myself without an adult JW in sight.

Crazy thing was that we never gave it a second thought. That was just what we did every Saturday and Sunday morning.

JV

43

Help me figure out what to say...I'm not usually at a loss for words

by Terry in

jw
friends

well, i finally found him on facebook!.

his name is tollie padgett.

he was my congregation overseer (before the "elder" changeover) when i was in prison in seagoville in the late 60's.. i've been searching for him for years and years.

Juan Viejo2

Terry,

Tollie shows up twice. I see where your photo is, but it looks like his other account is the active one. Go back and make sure that you try to connect with him there as well.

JV

81

Julia's Inquisition - Two elders, the full version! I want you all to see this.

by Julia Orwell in

jw
friends

sorry it's gonna be long winded.

i've done my best to reconstruct from memory.

my husband was next to me the whole time.

Juan Viejo2

Julia,

The next time they show up at your home and press you like they did on this visit, consider just asking them if they are "trying to chase you away"?

Be blunt about it. Point out the thousands of hours of door-to-door preaching work and the hundreds of pieces of literature that must be distributed just to get one single new convert. You are already a member and don't want to just walk away from it all even though you have some personal issues and some questions about the logic of the JW religion. But you are NOT asking to be thrown out. You aren't doing anything that would be considered a carnal sin. You are not a criminal. You are being respectful and in subjection to your husband - and to them as elders. Why don't they leave well-enough alone?

So why on their "shepherding call" would they want to make you feel awkward and try to make you feel guilty for having a few honest questions? Do they search for converts just so they can toss out many of those already part of the congregation. Where is the logic in that? What does that say to the new converts as they watch the existing members either leave or get chased away?

That would be the approach I would recommend. If they keep asking you about whether you accept the GB as the FDS, simply say that you don't know and that is not a big issue for you. Why are they making that an issue? Is that so important that you must accept the FDS doctrine completely without having a few personal doubts? Ask them if they don't occasionally have a twinge of doubt about something published in the Watchtower? Lots of brothers and sisters live with their doubts, but still go to meetings and engage in service. Some men may choose not to reach out for more responsibility because they know they have some doubts, but is that enough reason for them to just give up on the "Truth"?

I swear that I hear this same story so often that it is almost like the elders have nothing better to do that to look for reasons to force the rank and file to basically swear a loyalty oath in order to stay in the congregation. That was what your baptism was all about. You shouldn't have to swear on a Bible in order to stay in as long as you want.

Trust me on this. This has become a major issue as more and more elders feel that they must spend more of their time conducting an inquisition over their members. This is putting a lot of fear into the hearts of brothers and sisters everywhere. No one ever called the Inquisition an "act of love," and it actually weakened the Catholic Church in Europe. That is what the Watchtower is starting to do everywhere as they try to root out the apostates, real or imagined, within their midst. That, hopefully, will be their undoing.

JV

25

Bobby Rogers, founding member of The Miracles passes

by designs in

bobby rogers, along with cousin claudette (wife of smokey robinson), pete moore, ronnie white and smokey robinson formed the miracles in 1959 and had their first hits with 'bad girl' and the first motown #1 hit with 'shop around'.

the miracles became world famous for ooo baby baby, tracks of my tears, you've really got a hold on me among many others.. bobby wrote as well as sang and choreographed for the miracles, temptations, mary wells, marvin gaye, and the marvelettes (he was married to marvelettes lead singer wanda young).

going to a go go, ain't that peculiar, the way you do the things you do, my baby, what love has joined together are some of the songs he authored and co-wrote.. every summer in the 60s the motown review would come to los angeles.. here the miracles perform shop around.

Juan Viejo2

Saw the Miracles and the Temptations twice in the '60s - and both groups and the Four Tops on a couple of occasions in the 1980s.

Right after I got out of high school (Riverside Polytechnic, 1961), the next bigger city just 15 miles away, San Bernardino (CA), held some great shows at their municipal auditorium and also at the Orange Show Auditorium. I look back now and realize how much fun it was in those days when you could go to one of these shows and for $5.00 (USD) get to see a dozen great singing acts all on one stage and (at the Orange Show) actually dance to them.

Every time one of the members of these classic groups passes on I feel like I've lost a friend. I've seen them and heard them in person - and they were just as they appeared in these videos.

JV

45

The results of the 2012 survey are published, and the new 2013 survey is now online!

by cedars in

jw
friends

for those of you who are following our annual jw global survey, you will be pleased to know that the results have been published, and are available on the link below.... http://jwsurvey.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/2012-jw-survey-results.pdf.

i would urge as many as possible to take part in our new survey, which has been enhanced to implement some of the suggestions we received from those taking part in last year's poll.. anyway, i hope you find the 2012 results helpful and enjoy taking part in our new survey.. by all means share your thoughts on the results on this thread, not to mention any suggestions that will help make the 2014 survey better still!

cedars.

Juan Viejo2

Entirely Possible -

You are absolutely right. The Global Surveys only tally the results for those who would go to JWSurvey. Who would they be? Readers of my sites, Freeminds, and JWN mostly. At the same time, the survey is well represented on Google search for anyone looking to find it. It is no accident that Cedar's site is named JWSurvey.org.

We don't have the luxury of being able to focus a survey like political surveys where phone numbers are sorted by congressional districts and voter registrations. We can't send a copy to the Watchtower and ask them to send our survey out to all members. Our only way to advertise and recruit participants is by doing exactly what we are doing here and on our other websites.

Knowing that the survey does have some limitations and might not pass muster with the New York Times or the Wall Street Journal doesn't negate the great and useful information that we can glean from it.

I get emails and phone calls from many current and former JWs who, when involved in conversation, will often share their opinions with me about certain issues. More often than not, unless it is the rare caller who is so blinded and set in cult ways that seeing TTATT is impossible for them, most would probably fit comfortably within the majority results of the Global Survey.

Knowing its weaknesses actually help us in the long run to adjust the meaning of the results. The only sad thing is that so many current JWs who might participate will never know that it exists and won't find it. We'd love their input - but are unlikely to get it.

JV

23

The real problem with Watchtower.

by Rattigan350 in

jw
friends

a topic on here about 1975 prompted me to write about how, for me, that is and never was or will be an issue.. also, the 144,000 and 'two classes' with memorial partaking, and child abuse are not issues with this religion.

everyone has their unique teachings and personnel problems.. the real problem with this religion was highlighted in the 2008 yearbook.

it gave a story of a young woman who was from estonia who was on the equivalent of american idol for estonia.

Juan Viejo2

The Watchtower's prejudice against education, self-expression, and personal growth may be a major contributor to the organization's own lack of growth and internal problems. Imagine if the Watchtower could point to the thousands of members who became engineers, educators, journalists, scientists, and sports stars who are/were Jehovah's Witnesses. They could show the world how truly blessed Witnesses have been by Jehovah.

Imagine the good they could have done if someone had not wasted their time in unproductive door-to-door witnessing, but had become an entrepreneur like Bill Gates. Gates and his wife Melinda run a foundation that focuses on education and health issues. He and his foundation are like the mythical Midas whose gold replenished itself nearly as fast as he could spend it. The Watchtower cooked their "gold laying goose" a long time ago when they began discouraging education for their children.

Instead the Watchtower can only point to people like rock star Prince and sports stars Venus and Serena Williams - more often embarrassments than pillars of their community. Many of their more famous and wealthy members only became famous and wealthy because they WERE NOT WITNESSES. Some could have become even more famous and wealthy, but left their successful field to become door knockers (Teresa Graves).

The Witness religion really is designed to turn potentially successful intelligent people into pauper drones. There are a few rare exceptions, but only because they had to leave the cult to finally achieve success; read http://watchtowerwatch.com/blog/its-going-to-be-ok

I once heard a lecture on the "real cost of war." Think of the thousands of American, British, Australian and Canadian men who died within minutes of hitting the beaches at Normandy, Iwo Jima, the Phillipines. Think of the thousands of Americans who died in Viet Nam. A fairly high percentage had at least high school educations and a large group (officers, pilots, engineers) had college educations. The speaker pointed out that in any 1000 males from those eras who either did not go to war or survived the war, approximately 180 excelled in some way later in life in education, science, medicine, or space technology. By extrapolation he theorized that had those millions not been killed in war we would have found the cures for cancer, ALS, MS, and Alzheimer's - probably by the late 1970s. Life spans may have increased by 10-15% beyond what they are today, with thousands of HEALTHY elders living to see 100 years or more. He went even further and pointed out that the wasteful wars of the 18th and 19th centuries (Napoleon, Civil War, colonization of Africa and Asia) wreaked havoc on the educated populations of Europe and North America. In spite of that, look how far we have progressed with just the survivors.

I feel the same about the Witnesses. They can believe what they want - even the Old Testament fairy tales - but allow them to educate themselves and prosper - and the Watchtower would greatly prosper with them. The Mormons are an excellent example of a cult that has prospered in spite of their ridiculous beliefs.

But no, the leaders want the R&F to basically live meaningless and non-expansive lives. Really - how many JWs aspire to be chosen for the Governing Body or traveling overseers some day? Is that the only goal available to them? What about the creative abilities of female JWs? Is all of that to be wasted as well?

JV